Naw, Both are great. You are not going to find a negative blog entry here.
What I really want to talk about is Mark Nobilette.
http://www.nobilettecycles.com/
Marketing is a wierd, wierd thing. Both the top of the line Rivendells and Recreations of Rene Herse bicycles are made by Mark. You would think with such a gem laying about of a builder that customers would be clamoring to get the frame directly from the source but no. Mark sells far more Rivendells and RH’s than he does his own product. Am I the only one who finds this strange? It would not surprise me to find that in the future these brands are more collectible than the man who made them.
We see this in all sorts of businesses. Jewelry manufacturers like Cartier don’t make the jewelry. Jewelers do. The very same quality of jeweler in fact may be right around the corner in NY city but demand is high for the name, not the work. I read once that a particular Ferrari was extremely valuable while the actual guy who made the whole chassis was alive and making them for a fraction of the price. Sorry Enzo, but I rather have the real deal. Here the car can command 8 million but the 80 year old guy who built it is looking for work. Odd.
So to keep this short. The best bicycles ever are being produced right now all across the world. Consider buying your frame from it’s source not some company that name is based on a J.R.R Tolkien novel or another that bought a name from a gentlemams family who has been deceased since 1976.
I have a nobilette Rivendell. Know why it’s different/possibly better than just a Nobilette custom? Because it was designed by Grant Petersen. He designs the most best bikes out there in my opinion, which is why so many custom builders base their frames around his old designs. Don’t know what the deal is with Herses but that’s why you buy a Rivendell. A few decades of experience designing great bikes for people. Petersen designs, made by the best possible frame builders out there, whether Nobilette, Waterford, or Toyo, are why Rivendells are just about the best bikes out there.
Gentlemans bike. Thanks for commenting on my blog.
I have no problem with Rivendells or Grant Peterson. I am also glad you like your bike as it is very nice.
Respectfully this is my comment. We “custom builders” have not based any of our geometry on Grants geometry because it is not Grants to begin with. There are appropriate ways to design a bicycle for the task at hand and many, many bikes have been designed for many years longer than Grant has been alive and are just like Grant emulates now.
Getting back to Mark for a moment. Mark has a longer history of making and designing frames than Grant and could design a frame every bit as well, if asked. Heck, ask Grant yourself. I am positive Grant would affirm my assertion.
Once again, Rivs are great as are many other frames. There is no magic in any of this. Well designed bicycles, well made are just that. IMHO I think one should seek out the source, that is all.
You make excellent points, both in your post and in your comments. As much as possible, I try to give my money to independent manufacturers and to the source of the talent I am paying for.
The way I see it, the benefit of good designer intervention (and I consider Grant Petersen a good designer), is that they direct the customer towards a sound and appropriate decision, which the customer may not have necessarily been able to make if interacting with the builder directly. This comment is not meant to undermine either customers’ or framebuilders’ competence, but simply to say that a good pre-fab menu works better for the majority of people than ordering a la carte, even from the best restaurant. Grant Petersen put together an excellent menu and he keeps customers happy by not allowing them to order off that menu. You can go to the source, but you have to know what to ask for if you want a bike as good or better than a Rivendell.
As for René Herse… I am sure that the new company offers fine bicycles. But they are not René Herse bicycles. Nothing more can be said about that, as far as I am concerned.
Lovely Bicycle. You make a great point that I have not thought of before. I understand how daunting it could be for a potential frame customer to just call an unknown framebuilder and order something they have never seen nor know much about. I order the pre-fab menu all the time at restaurants because it usually works well and eases my decision.
I would add though that is one of the primary jobs of a framebuilder. That is to help educate and lead the customer to the proper design. Many people think they have to understand geometry, components, tubing etc. In reality I do that almost entirely and so in that sense I and many other framebuilders are just like Grant. That is I direct the customer to sound and appropriate decisions. This is learned. That is when I was a new builder I was much more likely to do as the customer wanted (the customer is always right) but as I have matured I have confidence in my own knowledge set and almost never have those kinds of interactions any longer.
Thanks for posting.